I found that this section definitely alleviated many of the
previous questions that we all seemed to have regarding the previous aspects of
the societal past of the novel. In addition, I think that we are beginning to
see a generalized trend developing in a deviating path from the past theme of
female suppression and oppression; specifically, I’m beginning to see this
through the developing relationship between Offred and the Commander as well as
the emergence of a subversive group. I also found it extremely interesting that
many new relationships – of both friendship and hatred – have been forged at
this pivotal point in the novel; particularly, the final chapter of this
section revealed quite a bit about the relationship between Serena Joy and
Offred. What other relationships did you all identify as particularly
interesting or insightful regarding the entirety of the novel? I also found it
interesting how there seems to be covert relationships of understanding present
within the various social levels; for instance, the way in which Cora covered
for Offred after finding her asleep on the floor seemed like an exemplification
of mutual understanding between the two. Can you guys think of any other
examples of clandestine friendships or relationships within the novel?
This week I think we should definitely discuss the
progression of the relationship between the narrator and Nick. Though the two
had very little direct interaction – solely a secretive signal and a glance
through a window – there seemed to be great advancements between the two. For
example, Serena Joy seemed to indirectly sell Offred to Nick as a toy of sexual
gratification, claiming that the relationship would be in the narrator’s best
interest. What do you all think about this interaction and, more importantly,
about the entirety of Nick and Offred’s relationship?
Furthermore, I think that we should discuss the past of Gilead
– also known as the modern-day United States – and its progression towards the
novel’s current social state. Though we learned a great deal about the societal
development in the novel, we never truly learned of any immediate indications
that ignited the transition from the United States to Gilead. I know that we’ve
discussed the possible sparks that may have resulted in the transformation of
America; however, what are everyone’s thoughts, now, knowing the new
information regarding the style of reformation that occurred within the novel’s
society? Additionally – connecting the previous question – what does everyone
think could occur in the future portions of the novel, regarding society as a
whole?
Finally, I thought it would be really interesting to discuss
the Commander’s relationship with the narrator in more detailing. Now, we’ve
learned about his past handmaid and her flee from the harsh world of the novel.
Do you all agree with the narrator’s thoughts that her relationship with the
Commander – whether sexually based or otherwise – is truly centralized around
the Commander’s guilt of his past relationship with the previous handmaid? Do
you think that Offred may utilize this guilt to her advantage in the future, as
she contemplates throughout this portion of the novel?
Overall, as we near the end of the novel, I think that we
have discovered some very interesting aspects of the novel and its society.
Additionally, I think that many more surprises and divulgences may occur in our
future readings.
Nick and Offred have a very interesting relationship. I believe that in another time and another life the two could have been friends based on their interactions and their relationship. Although we only see them together through the signals of the Commander, I think that this reveals a lot about Nick’s character. It shows that he also does not mind rebelling against the normal society, and that he may not even approve of it. At the same time, these rebellious acts could be a promise from the Commander and the Wife that, if he does this and tells no one, his prize would be Offred. I think that as we read on we will see their relationship grow and find out the true motives both of Nick giving signals to Offred and The Wife offering up Nick.
ReplyDeleteAlthough we do not know much of how the society got to where it is now, I think it is a safe assumption to say that it revolved around events regarding women. This reformation began by oppressing women and basically bringing them back to a point in time when they had not rights. There must have been some event that occurred or some information about women that the government found so important that they had to hide it away. I think that as we read further and see more of Offred’s memories and flashbacks, it will become more apparent why the society changed.
I do agree that he is feeling guilt about his relationship or lack thereof with the previous handmaid. After she died, the Commander placed much of the blame of this event on himself. I don’t think that this relationship is sexually based. I think that he wants to get to know Offred on a more human level, rather than just for reproductive purposes. The Commander may realize how lonely it must be to be a Handmaid, after what happened to his previous one, and wants to prevent it from happening again.
I think that the Nick following the Commander's orders says quite a bit about his ideas regarding the society of the novel, too, Meghan. I think that it's quite interesting that you think that there Offred may be offered as a prize to Nick, because I originally had not thought about that possibility; however, I now see how that is a definite possibility. Also, I agree that the past events that caused the social shift most likely revolved around women and their respective roles, especially considering the recollection of the scene in the library at which Offred previously worked. Furthermore, I found it very interesting that you thought that the Commander may be able to place himself in the role of a handmaid and comprehend the loneliness that they, collectively, experience. The society seems so dictated by assigned roles that I never considered that one individual may be able to understand the role of another.
DeleteAs well as you two, I agree with this idea of Offred being a prize to Nick. This is a very unique way of thinking about this issue and I am intrigued by the promiscuity behind it. I also can understand the library scene as conveying issues with the roles of women. As her boss seemed afraid, and asked the women to leave it shows a side of society that may not entirely agree with the new ideas. Clearly the decision to shut out women was not unanimous is any way, and I am still concerned by the fact that we don't see any revolting against this new system.
DeleteI feel the same way Kristen, I am hoping to see a little more resistance towards the new system other than some sneaking around. I thought we might after reading chapter 27 and finding out Ofglen, Offred's shopping partner, is part of a group of subversives. I'm curious to see if any trouble making will occur in the next section of the book.
DeleteOh yes, I was very intrigued by the group of subversives, but also nervous about what could happen. I was very skeptical, and if I was Offred, I would've thought it was a trap.
DeleteThat's a really analytical idea, Kristen! I hadn't considered the idea of the library scene conveying a sense of disparities among the ideologies of different members of society. I, too, am really interested to see what may occur with the group of subversives, Alexa! I initially thought that it may have been a trap, though now I am not as skeptical as I previously was.
DeletePersonally, I think Offred and Nick’s relationship seems so out of place because of the strict societal rules regarding men and women interactions. What Serena Joy is essentially suggesting is that Offred use a donor (Nick) to get pregnant. In our society this is normal and people use donors to have children all of the time. I think Atwood has paralleled a normal action with the stories skewed society to reinforce how much has changed and is different between our lives and the characters.
ReplyDeleteI think the reformation began with oppressing women and then gradually those in control began to oppress other groups they didn’t agree with, and finally took over control of the rest of the population; similarly to how the Nazis gained control.
I think part of the Commander’s relationship with the narrator is based on his guilt form the suicide of his last handmaid. I think another main part of it is simply him wanting to rebel a bit and break the strict rules, even in simple ways. However, I definitely think Offred will utilize his guilt for her own personal gain sometime later in the novel.
I, too, felt like the relationship between Nick and Offred seemed extremely out of place, Alison. However, I never made the comparison between Serena Joy's suggestion and pregnancy through a donor; I considered her suggestion to revolve around a physical interaction between Nick and the narrator. However, considering her ideas as comparable to a donor, it seems much closer to normalcy. Additionally, I found it really interesting how you were able to draw connections between the changes between reality and the society of the novel using the similarities and disparities between the idea of pregnancy through a donor; I never noticed this possible comparison! Furthermore, I found it really interesting how you connected the Nazi regime and the shift of power within the novel; I think that this connection says a lot about not only the means through which these individuals gained power, but also the possible governmental motives. I, also, agree that the Commander will most likely experience some type of manipulation through Offred's usage of his guilt based upon his past relationship with handmaids.
DeleteI agree the relationship between the narator and Nick seemed completely out of place given the restriction of their new society. When Serena told Offred that the Commander may be sterile, and suggested that she use Nick to get preganant, thinking of him as a donor was a great connection. If Offred gets pregnant and has a healthy baby she will not be sent to the Colonies, and more imporatnly she will be away from Serena's husband. However I have never gotten the impression of Serena showing any signs of liking Offred or wanting to help her in any way. I get the feeling she wants Offred out of her home, and if she gets a relationship going between Nick and Offred, she can accuse Offred of breaking the law and sent to the Colonies, or worse. She could either be trying to help or setting her up for major failure here because while the men go about their days not even aware of the misery the women endure, women can hurt each other more by not trusting one another, so why should Offred trust Serena now?
DeleteI think that your interpretation of Serena's possible ulterior motives are definite possibilities, Alexa! I think that Serena Joy would cherish the opportunity to send Offred away from her house; furthermore, being given the opportunity to send her all the way to Colonies or to death would be an absolute pleasure for Serena, in my opinion. I also agree with your point regarding the relationships between the men in comparison to the relationships between women in the novel; it seems as though the women are a lot more mistrusting and fake, in a sense.
DeleteI also agree with your ideas Alexa! I didn't really think of Serena's suggestions as a scheme to get Offred out, but now I can see what you mean. It would make sense if Serena was just trying to get Offred in trouble, but she doesn't realize that her husband will most likely just end up with a new handmaid. Overall, her scheme may be worthless other than for removing Offred. However, Serena has showed herself to be such a miserable wife to the commander that I do not doubt this. The commander himself no longer feels any sort of connection to Serena. I think a lot of these issues could be related to a possible failing marriage within a household that is supposed to look happy to the outside world.
DeleteI didn't make the connection that the Commander and his wife may be representative of individuals who portray happy marriages when both are miserable. I think that this could've been intentional by Atwood in order to show similarities between reality and the society of the novel. By doing so, she could be attempting to emphasize the possibility of societal deterioration and downfall at any time.
DeleteYes Tyler I agree with your point! I don't think I really conveyed my idea clearly. What I meant was the society of these commanders, their wives, Martha's, and handmaids are suppose to be "picture perfect" and the right thing. What I meant was that this deteriorating marriage is conflicting with that idea by showing how ridiculous the new society is.
DeleteI didn't mean to sound like I was disagreeing with your idea, sorry! I was saying that initially I didn't make that connection, though it makes sense now. I forgot to put that part in my response, I guess. Again, sorry! I entirely agreed with the point you were making; I was only expanding on possible authorial intentions.
DeleteAlexa I hadn’t considered that Serena Joy may have had ulterior motives in regards to her suggestion. It makes a lot of sense though and I think it is definitely a possible plot route that could occur.
DeleteTyler I agree that the women in the novel all appear fake. This is probably due to the fact that they are under constant surveillance and any slip could cause their death, similar to 1984 and the telescreens. The added stress doesn’t allow the women to develop a personality of their own.
DeleteKristen I thought that your interpretation of the Commander and Serena’s marriage was very interesting. It makes a lot of sense especially because they have no escape from each other, they have to live with each other for the rest of their lives.
DeleteMeghan, I like your points about Offred and Nick's relationship as friends, however I am begining to lead towards Allison's views. I can see how the wife may want to use Nick as a donor for many reasons. Clearly her husband is struggling with his position, and she is probably tired of the night time rituals with Offred. This set up between Nick and Offred is exactly what the wife wants to get the handmaid away from her husband.
ReplyDeleteAs for the societal issues, I found this section to be very intriguing. At one point, Atwood narrates to the audience what has happened through a flashback. Offred remembers that is was quick as soon as the president was shot and the constitution was put on hold. I found these actions the be extreme, and frighteningly possible. However, I think America at that time was too far into some conflict, possibly abortion, that security allowed for something like that to happen. I think right now our president and government is secured enough to avoid this, and although abortion issues are not out of control, they are present.
As for the Commander's relationship with the handmaid, I agree with both Meghan and Allison's opinions. I think he felt guilty about the previous handmaid's suicide and thus decided that it was necessary to have a humane relationship with his next maid. I believe that is the way it should be because extra stress in the household may make reproduction nearly impossible.
I agree that the Wife definitely wants to remove the handmaid from her life, though I consider it in more of a generalized sense, I think. Rather than attempting to solely eliminate Offred from her life in order to keep her husband to herself, I think that Serena Joy wants to remove all handmaids from her life. She doesn't seem to grieve the loss of her past handmaid, either; in my opinion, this emphasizes her lack of sympathy for this societal group. Also, I found it really interesting how you drew connections between a present issue in our society and the novel - like abortion. I never considered this issue to be a possibility within the novel; however, it makes a lot of sense. Good connection!
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