Personally, I feel as though this section answered many of
my previous questions while simultaneously prompting various others. Overall,
though, I’m beginning to understand the progression of the story with much more
depth; however, two styles of progress seem to exist dichotomously within the
novel: the progression of the plot (which I consider a sort of “short-term”
progression) and the progression from the past to the present (which I consider
to be a “long-term” progression). Overall, I think these developments
compliment each other, thereby emphasizing the differences, inequalities, and
injustices amongst past and modern times within the setting. I think that these
dissimilarities amongst the time periods is inherently highlighted at the
beginning of chapter eight, where the narrator claims, “The good weather holds.
It’s almost like June, when we would get out our sundresses and our sandals and
go for an ice cream cone. There are three new bodies on the Wall.” (43). By
forming this sentence with a sense of continuity – without any sort of
differentiation indicating a shift from past to present – Atwood is able to
juxtapose the different lifestyles associated with the two societies. This week, I focused most of my analysis and subsequent discussion questions upon society in the novel and societies in their entirety.
First, this week, I thought it could be interesting to
discuss and distinguish the role of society within the novel – specifically, a
comparison between the present society of the novel and what little we know
regarding that of the past. Do you feel as though the present society is a
derivation and progression of the past society, or rather that an entirely new
social structure has developed? What, would you say, are some characteristics
of the novel’s society – both past and present? Additionally, do you feel as
though certain individuals dictate societal roles and standards within the
novel or rather that society has evolved to such a point that, truly, it
dictates the individual’s into maintaining certain roles?
Secondly, I think we should consider a quote found at the
end of chapter 11. In the quote, the narrator claims, “I’ve crossed no
boundaries. I’ve given no trust, taken no risk, all is safe. It’s the choices
that terrifies me. A way out, a salvation.” What do you think this fear of
choice and decision indicates regarding the narrator and other handmaids within
the novel? How could it be used to explain the handmaid subculture throughout
the entirety of the story? If you find it easier, you could use the context of
the above quote or find a quote that you feel better exemplifies your ideas.
Finally, in order to provide a realistic context, I think we
should attempt to draw parallels, juxtapositions and contradictions between the
novel’s society and our own personal society – at local, national, and possibly
international levels. What are the most obvious differences between society of
the novel and the society of reality? For example, I know that Cassidy
mentioned the role of rape regarding the novel’s society and discussed the
dissimilarities between the two societies. Additionally, since the society of
the novel appears so domineering and overbearing, in a sense, what are some
forms of salvation from the societal troubles in the novel?
I believe that the present society is a completely new societal structure that became the way it is because of the past society. The society is the way that it is because of the way that men treated women in the past. It changed to create a safer and more sheltered environment for women. This new society is very strict and structured. If someone is caught doing something that they are not supposed to, there are very harsh consequences. The past society was much looser and care-free. There really were no strict rules to follow and most people did whatever they wanted to do. It is obvious that the choice that they have to make scare the narrator and other handmaids. The "choice" may be the decision to either have children or be killed. If they have children, it won't be on their own terms, and they will have to accept that it their only purpose in life, and are useless for everything else. If they are killed, it is because they refused to let their new society define them, and wanted to be more than something that men need to use. The "way out" is to choose death over children which will lead to their freedom, their "salvation." Although our society and their society are not alike at all, I believe that their society is derived from our society. During the narrator's dreams and flashbacks, there are many scenes that could appear to be what our lives look like. When leaders in their society realized that men taking advantage of women was becoming too big of a problem, they put and end to it by completely changing the way that things worked. I don't believe that our society would make that drastic of a change to protect the women.
ReplyDeleteThe old society seems to be like present day society to us. Also, interesting comment you made about this new society being created to make a safer environment for women. Do you or anyone else agree that it has done that?
DeleteKristen, I think it has made the environment safer for women only in the sense that they are being constantly watched so they can't be easily physically harmed. This environment is extremely bad for their mental health though, as is evident when the narrator claims that you hold onto your sanity for later. The constant watching has them all constantly on edge which increases stress and negatively effects the body and mind
DeleteI also think it has negatively impacted how women view other women. For example, while there was the funeral procession walking down the street, the women were spit at by other women. I think the only positive thing to come out of this new society is the physical protection from harm.
DeleteI entirely understand your point regarding the female protection that leaders from the novel's society enacted laws in order to enforce, Meghan and Alison. However, despite the various claims within the text, I never truly felt that this society was based upon protection in any sense; rather, I had contemplated the societal injustices as forms of torture designed to dictate and organize societal structures based upon certain individuals' preferences. Also, Kristen, I think that the development of society in such a way has had a horrible impact on the interactions between women within the novel. By creating such a segregated and strict environment, I believe that the women of the novel were forced to find comfort in the commonalities of their sects, which seem to mostly centralize upon communal hatred towards other groups.
DeleteMy opinion on the safety of women is actually very different from how you guys feel. I don't see any sense of protection for women at all in this society that hides razors, and any method of hanging from them. The men are aware of the hostile environment the women are placed in, however the don't seem to care. The men only keep the women around for pregnancy, and as our narrator mentions, if you are infertile you will be killed. I don't see any protection towards women, but I do see protection for the small amount of viable eggs they may have after being put under so much stress.
DeleteThat is definitely an interesting point, Kristen. I agree that women are used in a pawn-like manner, entirely focused upon bearing children. In fact, it doesn't immediately appear as though women are required to care for the children that they birth. I think that this is another way of emphasizing the depersonalization within the novel; the next generation of the novel will be comprised, in its entirety, of essentially motherless children.
DeleteI have viewed this new society in a bit of a different way; I don't think it was intended to protect women at all, but rather to punish them. In one if Offred's flashbacks, she recalls being at the Rachel and Aleah center during a sort of confessional time. One woman spoke of being gang raped, and the rest of the women in the room had to chant that it was her fault, that she had been asking for it. It seems that this new society views women as corrupt, seductive, immoral creatures who deserved the criminal acts committed against them in the past, and now need to be strictly watched and placed in certain positions in order to keep them "good" and "proper". I believe this is also why they all have set roles; "Wives" and "Handmaids" and then women who do domestic work. They have stripped women of their individuality and placed them in strict roles that only allow them to express a certain aspect of their past life. This also creates resentment amongst the women in this new society, turning them all against each other so that they are unable to come together and fight against this oppressive society.
DeleteThat's a very interesting way of viewing the new society in the novel, that it was made to keep women safe, I never thought of it that way; however I agree with what Kristen said, that men still don't care about women, in fact they could not even care less because now they are being used almost as objects in every singe way now. The narrator made a comment that sometimes Serena Joy will put her hand on her shoulder to seat herself during The Ceremonys as if she is leaning on a piece of furniture for support. Not only are the men depersonalizing women to the extreme, but the women do it to each other as well by looking down upon one another, they do not see each other as equal, and they should really be protecting each other, they are giving the men all the more power.
DeleteAs I am reading, it seems to me that the present day society in the novel has regressed. The women before could read and write and study things in school. Now, they can't do any of that. They can't even sit down and read the newspaper. The women aren't exactly treated as males' equals. They are striped of certain rights, which is similar to what women faces a hundred years ago. Also, in a way their culture reminds me of some cultures in the Middle East in the sense that woman can't be dressed in revealing clothes and they can't talk to men who aren't there husbands.
ReplyDeleteHi Kristen, your comment about the parallels between the middle eastern societies and the one in the novel makes a lot of sense. I think the only difference really is that the novel has taken this concept a step or two farther.
DeleteKristen, I think that the parallel drawn between female challenges from centuries ago and the current social standards within the novel are very interesting. I believe that this could, possibly, be a manifestation of a degrading society - one that has essentially regressed to the standards and practices common hundreds of years ago.
DeleteKristen, I love the connection you made between the way women are oppressed in the Middle East today and the soiety the new society in the novel. I was actually thinking along that same lines as that because of the fact they are not permitted to show any form of sexuality, and also because they live in constant fear of having their true opinions heard by men, and some women, and the fear to even show their face.
DeleteI hadn't thought about the connections about the novel and the Middle East before you mentioned it, Kristen, but it seems really obvious now! I wonder if Atwood did that intentionally, and if so, if it was meant as a criticism to that society or as a warning to other societies of possible regression.
DeleteAnother thing I noticed and find significant is on page 49 when it says "Was he in my room? I called it my room" I think that is very significant. It is the first time she claims it to be her own. I think, in a way, it is her accepting that this is how life is now and there is nothing she can really do to change it. What significance do you guys think this quote has?
ReplyDeleteI agree, the small fact that she has claimed ownership of this room is huge. In addition to what you were thinking I believe that it signifies to us as readers that the narrator will remain in this home for the rest of the story. If she is removed from this setting I think it would signifying the ways that this society takes away all forms of comfort they can, making everything appear alien to us and the characters.
DeleteI agree with both of you. I think that she has finally accepted it as hers, foreshadowing that she will remain here for a majority of the novel. Also, if there is ever a point where she is forced to leave, it will be even harder for her to let go because she has become attached to it.
DeleteI, like you and Alison, agree that this quote really permeated throughout this section, resonating as a pivotal point within the text. I think that this declaration of possessiveness creates a sense of a personal connection, while emphasizing the mutual acceptance of fate. Furthermore, I think that the context of this quote adds to the importance of it. Since someone was in her room, I think that this quote added a sense of someone invading her personal space - her sanctity, in a sense.
DeleteI think that this quote does represent how Offred is coming to terms with her new life, starting to become one with it rather that fight it. I think that the quote and the significance behind it is very closely related to the relationship that seems time developing between her and Nick. Although she clearly misses and loves her husband Luke, her desire for Nick is an indication that she seems to be leaving that old life behind. However, what is going on between her and Nick, if anything, is completely against everything that is expected and allowed in this new society, showing that she still is seeking rebellion, but in a new (and dangerous) form.
DeleteI think that the new society is a completely new society from what we’re used to. However, I do believe that there is mediator society that existed between our society and the society in the book. Possible evidence of this is when Luke and the narrator are trying to smuggle themselves and their daughter out of their town. I think this shows that a society once existed that transitioned from ours into the new one, so the new society would be a deviation from that one. I think the ‘eyes’ controls the societal roles however I’m not sure who exactly that is yet.
ReplyDeleteI think it shows how much the belief that handmaids exist for one purpose and that they are too act in very specific ways has been ingrained into them. So much so that the mere option and thought of making a choice contradicting these ways induces minor panic. It also shows how succesfully the new regime has been at taking over physically and mentally. This fear also acts as a binding structure that keeps the handmaids together because they all experience it but simultaneously they all remember a time before this when choice was human liberty and right.
I think the most obvious similarities lies with the parallel between the novel society and fanatical groups such as cults that use religious texts and beliefs to take full control of large populations and control the peoples lives. This is what I believe happened in the novel. I think the society we see is a larger scale version of a religious cult that is at war with all who disagree with it. I think the only salvation people have in the novel is the little things. Things like smuggling butter to use as lotion, stealing dead flowers as a form of rebellion, and the writing of words which was once a normal part of everyday life and is now punishable by death.
I like the idea of the transitional society in the middle. It makes this situation seem more realistic because it seems impossible to have such a drastic to change from basically normal to strict and structured. Also, it would give a reason behind Luke and the narrator trying to smuggle themselves and their daughter out of the area.
DeleteLike Meghan, I think that your idea about a transitional society, intermediate to that of the novel and our own, is really interesting and something that I would not have considered, Alison. Additionally, I almost seemed to forget the importance of the eyes throughout the role of the novel; they almost became a natural occurrence in my own mind as I submerged myself within the text and plot of the novel. I don't entirely think the eyes is a group of certain, designated individuals that were assigned this job. Rather, I consider the eyes to be any individual that strictly follows the rules of the society and, subsequently, reports others who deviate from the given laws and regulations.
DeleteTyler, I like what you are saying that the eyes are any individual that follows the rules because before I had always seen the eyes as a single group dictating the rest of the people like in 1984; however now I also can see how those eyes trickle down into common society. The men will tattle on the women, and becasue they are warped with fear, women will tattle on each other as well. Now no ones thoughts are safe, their thoughts are dictated. Even the narrators conversation with the doctor about giving her a "way out" made her sick to her stomach with fear because she is petrafied of the choice to be defiant, and she had not even done anything wrong in that moment. Although I am curious to see what she makes of that choice in the future.
DeleteI'm also really curious to see the narrator's future choices, Alexa. Also, since you had mentioned how thoughts are dictated within the novel, it reminded me of the thoughtpolice within 1984. I think that the eyes of The Handmaid's Tale are almost a combination of the thoughtpolice and the telescreens of 1984.
DeleteThe part of the book when Luke and the narrator are trying to smuggle themselves and their daughter out of the are makes it seem like they are trying to flee the country. Do you think that this new society is everywhere, or is it just concentrated into one state or country?
ReplyDeletePersonally, I was under the impression that this new society is supposed to represent a post-dystopian America. Mostly, this is because I remember reading that all connections were cut off with Canada - or something along those lines - and this seemed to emphasize that this story took place in some form of America, being that the two countries bored each other.
DeleteI had questioned this earlier in the novel when the Japanese tourists had arrived and the narrator was criticizing their outfits and lifestyles, so I had begun paying particular attention to the scenes in which other countries were mentioned.
DeleteI am thinking that it is mostly happening everywhere. I think that it has started in America, and because America is so influential, it has spread to other places, and they can't really escape it now. Maybe it wasn't like that before when they were trying to escape, but I feel like now it was just everywhere.
DeleteMeghan, I believe the fleeing seen reveals to us more about the structure of this society. I don't think this society is present everywhere, but currently just in America as they try to flee north to canada and talk about Detroit and North Carolina . This novel has really made me think about life in America, and I continue to grow worried about the possibility of a shift to a culture like this. (Not sure if I am logged into my account, it's Cuneo.)
DeleteIn response to your comment about the Japanese tourists Tyler, I have been curious about foreign societies. I believe that at this point we haven't seen enough out of other societies to really understand the truth behind what is going on. One thing I wanted to bring up were the Eyes, which I saw as a complete parallel to 1984 and big brother. To me, this novel seems to reveal a more feminine perspective on a time similar to that of 1984.
DeleteI definitely noticed a lot of similarities between this novel and 1984, Cuneo. It seems as though this novel altered society and stripped women of their rights and individuality, as Big Brother did within the context of 1984.
DeleteLike all other post apocalyptic novels we have read, I am, as always, curious about what lead to such a huge transition. Does anyone think it was the rebuilding of society after some kind of disaster? Or could it be a huge societal change that occurred after a fault in society and not the environment? Could it be possible that birth rates were so low that men decided to basically make women their prisoners until they could produce a child? If this is the case, I wonder if there is a specific reason as to why it is so hard for women to become pregnant..... Is it the stress? Or could it be a result of modern issues and disease?
DeleteAs I was reading, it seemed to me that this dystopian society is only in America, and the result of a civil war with many sides that manifested in the form of religious groups with differing views on women and their rights. I believe that is why Offred and her husband had been trying to cross the border (I believe into Canada), and then flee further to another country. America as a powerful nation could away others into thinking like them as Kristen said, but I also think that the downfall of America into an almost primitive society (in the way that humans, especially women, are being treated), is an area of excitement and joy for people from other countries, as represented by the Japanese tourists.
DeleteKristen, in response to your questions, I think that this new society was created from a gradual change in views on women in society. The rape culture of the novel, which holds the belief that women are responsible for sexual crimes against themselves and their bodies, is something that I think must have been spread by many people and became popular opinion. It seems as though Serena Joy was an original advocate for putting women in a new, domestic place in society because they were becoming too powerful/ outspoken/ independent/ or any other way that would show women to be strong. I believe that the use of religions as sides of a war with weapons, not words, brought about the change in society and is an important fictitious element of the novel that Atwood wants the readers to notice. I believe the difficulty for women to get pregnant does come from the stress, but also from the fact that only older gentlemen are the ones allowed to try to impregnate women.
I had never thought of the Japanese tourists representing a form of excitement stemming from the downfall of America, but that is definitely an interesting way to look at that scene, Cassidy! Also, do you mind expanding upon your ideas regarding the author's intended use of religions as conflicting elements in an armed war? I believe I understand what you're saying, though I'm not totally sure that I understand what you feel the author's intentions and the subsequent results may be. I just wanted to clarify because I think that you have a really interesting point, if I'm interpreting and understanding your ideas correctly.
DeleteAlso, I failed to put this into the original post, but what are everyone's thoughts regarding the hangings on the wall? The image of the red smile of blood really resonated in my mind as a manifestation of the acceptance of societal cruelties, almost as though people are happy to die rather than suffer through the current standards of life to which they are subjected.
ReplyDeleteI think the hangings are exactly what our protagonist alludes to. A warning, for the women to see. I do agree that it represents society's acceptance of torture too
Delete